Whenever I find a poll, or article, that takes a political point of view or shows a result that I find to be in contrast with what I think is common sense, my ears get pointed and I get interested.
Take the case of the Senate election in Minnesota between Demo Al Franken and Repub Norm Coleman. The election ended too close to call and we have had various challenges, recounts, etc., ever since. Coleman’s claim has been that the votes weren’t all counted the same. As I noted in the Link below, I think he has a point and that seems wrong to me.
The Minnesota Board of Elections, a three judge panel, disagrees with me. Their position appears to be that well….. the election officials tried to do it right…
Well, well. Will that become the new defense? “Judge, I tried to NOT rob that bank.”
Over vote link.
So now Coleman finds that he can accept having the election decided by different rules in different places, or he can appeal. Concede or appeal to the Minnesota SC and then, if he loses there, up the Federal chain to the US SC.
Various pundits have weighed in on both sides which matters not to me. What I do find of interest is this that poll that claims that 63% of the voters in Minnesota want Coleman to concede. Since the election ended too close to call, I was curious. So I started digging through the poll.
First I looked at how the voters in the poll claimed to have voted.
Q7 In the US Senate election last fall, who did you vote for? If you voted for Norm Coleman, press 1. If you voted for Al Franken, press 2. If you voted for Dean Barkley, press 3. If youdidn’t vote or don’t remember, press 4.
Coleman ......................................................... 41%
Franken........................................................... 41%
Barkley............................................................ 13%
Didn't Vote/Don't Remember .......................... 5%
I then looked up the party affiliation of those polls.
Q9 If you are a Democrat, press 1. If you are a Republican, press 2. If you are an independent
or identify with another party, press 3Democrat ........................................................ 39%
Republican...................................................... 28%
Independent/Other.......................................... 32%
Link to Minnesota Senate Recount Poll.
Q7 Is a snapshot of 11/4/08, if you believe the results. But, the issue isn’t what was done on 11/4/09, but whether or not Coleman should concede.
I then went to Q9. It should be obvious that a Democrat would be more likely to favor Coleman conceding. And my knowledge of MN politics tell me that the “Independents” are very much Leftwing Liberations and Populists. (Not the same person, obviously.)
So what would a reasonable person expect? I would expect that on the question of whether not Coleman should appeal, the results of the Poll’s loading Demo 39- Repub 28- Independent (Barkley) 32 number would follow party affiliation.
And they do.
If you go down to the crosstabs (back up information) in the poll, 93% of the Demos, 25% of the Repubs and 61% of the Barkley (Ind) voters polled want him to concede.
Okay, that makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is why the people polled are weighted the way they are.
Even more interesting is why these people changed their minds? And why in such astonishing numbers? Look 41% of those polled said they voted for Coleman.
Now 63% say they want him to concede?
That doesn’t make a lot of sense, now does it? As for the poll? I have no idea as to why it was done, who paid for it and why it was weighted the way it was.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHey DA! Sorry about that but I didn't feel like reading your BS this cold wet Global Warming morning.
ReplyDeleteNext time try and limit the personal attacks, write something that makes sense and I will try and let it stand.
Post the link to the entire ballot and let people decide for themselves whether giving it to Franken was fair or not.
ReplyDeleteThe facts are that the ballot is marked for both Senatorial candidates. Now you may THINK you know what the intent was based on how the other entries are marked, just as the Lefties in FL wanted to count votes based on "dimmples" on chads.
ReplyDeleteFact is, you, and no one else besides the voter knows. It is called an over vote and the rules say they are not to be counted.
I trust that isn't too hard of a concept for you to understand.
Indeed, while you are pushing for votes to count based on your belief that the vite was for Franen, thousands of military absentee voters have not be counted because the state did not mail the ballots in time to allow them be marked and returned.
What a total disgrace.
You want some dunderhead who can't mark a ballot, or ask for help, to have their fouled vote to count but you don't want the guy fighting to keep you safe to vote.
Shame on you. Shame on the Left. Shame on the Dimicrats.
weeder gander has left a new comment on your post "Polls and polls and what they mean":
ReplyDeleteThanks for letting the line stand.
Now you may THINK you know what the intent was based on how the other entries are markedLet's see, all the other entries are marked for Democrats, it seems that the voter was voting for Democrats on the ballot.
Because the Franken vote was marked the same way as the Democratic candidates, all adds up to us only 'THINKING' that we know the voters intention was to vote for Franken.
Helpful hint: It's called inductive reasoning, not thinking.
Fact is, you, and no one else besides the voter knows. It is called an over vote and the rules say they are not to be counted.
I trust that isn't too hard of a concept for you to understand.I realize that that concept of
letting people decide for themselves based on evidence doesn't enter into your hilarious attempts to deny the obvious, which in a way summarizes your whole blog to date.
Indeed, while you are pushing for votes to count based on your belief that the vite was for Franen, thousands of military absentee voters have not be counted because the state did not mail the ballots in time to allow them be marked and returned.From the Minneapolis Post:
(remainder deleted)
What you seem to misunderstand that it is an election, not an excercise in reasoning. An over vote is an over vote is an over vote.
ReplyDeleteThe state agency responsible for mailing out absentee ballots failed to perform to the letter of the law. I would suggest.
Employment termination of everyone even remotely associated with this failure.
Counting ALL military absentee ballots that are correctly marked.
Otherwise Demo controlled agencies will continue to "forget" to mail them on time knowing that the majority of military voters will not vote Democratic.
Don't want to publish the part from the Minneapolis Post about Franken stipulating that late military absentee ballots SHOULD be included in the count?
ReplyDeleteWhy am I not surprised?
After his coharts have carried the day, Wannabe Caesar Farnken washes his hands...
ReplyDeleteWhat you seem to misunderstand that it is an election, not an excercise in reasoning. An over vote is an over vote is an over vote.Except that the voters' intent was clearly for Democratic candidates, they were all marked the same way as was the vote for Franken, but you want to consider it an overvote.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the old saying, you can lead a horse to data, but you can't make him think?
After his coharts have carried the day, Wannabe Caesar Farnken washes his hands..Except by agreeing to let them be counted, he's nullified the hard work of his allies in the MN electorial system to disenfranchise military MN citizens voting out of state.
You can't prove what you wrote about Frankens' stand on the issue, so you turn the tables around with a new 'theory' when shown that your assertion isn't a reflection of reality.
I couldn't make up what you've written so far PPJ, you certainly have the imagination of a good writer as you demonstrate here and elsewhere.
Thanks again for demonstrating all my errors in reasoning and facts, let's do it again soon.
Along with all that data and logic you keep talking about maybe you should think aabout this:
ReplyDeleteAn over vote is an over vote is an over vote.
What anyone else thinks the voter meant is utter nonsense. That's why the rules say they are discarded.
And why did Franken wait untl 2/9?
That's a little more than 90 days after the fact.
And the answer is....He didn't want them counted.